Wednesday, November 19, 2008

From Rome: the right fascia...

Catholic splendor!

Moderns think that everything must be or is regulated by law, but they're wrong.

In Rome it's different and in fact much more fun: here there's custom (which is unwritten law). And, too, there are many splendid liturgical perogatives in the Diocese of Rome. Anywho it's all harmless: buckled shoes and tassels from the old days never hurt anybody! Like grandma always said: "Don't count pennies."

But, when you special order your fascia with tassels, make note of the two seperate styles here: one is a point reaching the tassel while the other is the round reaching the tassel. Take note as you have to tell them how you want it when you place the order (as per Don Juan).


Anonymous said...

Finger wagging legalists will complain this sash can no longer be worn.

Anonymous said...

The "finger waving legalists" as what we call the "Neo-Conservatives", who knodded their heads during John Paul II's term )Yes Holy Father, No Holy Father...Whatever you say Holy Father", regardless of the horrendous liturgical spectacles or other departures from Catholic tradition he embarked on.

Same with their obedience to Paul VI's 1968 tome which discarded 95% of Papal court and Papal liturgical beauty, ceremonial, and vesture. These people are probably gasping with outrage, but here's the main point....the young priests and religious in the Vatican, Rome and elsehere don;t care about Paul VI and his mean-spirited drive to destroy Catholic tradition, nor the people who influenced him to do so.
All they want is to restore everything. All the glory of the Church. And there's noting wrong with that!! More power to them, and I hope their influence is growing...including in the Vatican.

Anonymous said...

So we'll just pick and choose which things we do and don't want to obey. Ah! Cafeteria Catholicism is alive and well! The Church's "glory" comes from obedience to legitimate authority (whether you think it is "mean-spirited" or not) and not from doing whatever you like. Funny how when a priest disobeys the rubrics at mass he's vilified but when they wear fun clothes (in disobedience) that's wonderful. When the Pope says it's OK to wear the sash with these pom-poms on it then it will be OK. Not before. Just going ahead anyway and expecting approval later is how we got Communion in the hand.

PeterHWright said...

Anon 2 misses the point. This post specifically states that buckled shoes and tufted sashes from the old days are harmless, and this is very true. After all, they are not exactly de fide, are they ?

"Cafeteria Catholicism" really has nothing to do with la bella figura. In spite of the philistine 1960s, Rome is still Rome.

Incidentally, I wonder how many souls were saved by the Instruction "Ut sive sollicite" on prelatial dress ?

Legalists should be mindful of the old maxim "salus animarum suprema lex".

I would agree that liturgical abuses and unauthorised departures from the prescriptions and rubrics of the Missal are often very harmful, and therefore are not to be tolerated. But they are rather a different matter from the Pauline rules on clerical dress.

Oh, and let the finger wagging legalists not forget such things as praeter legem, contrary custom, local privilege, immemorial custom, etc.

And by all means let Catholics enjoy their great heritage, so much of which was carelessly discarded in the 1960s and 1970s.

Today, Catholic tradition is alive and well. Gaudeamus et laetemur.

Anonymous said...

Ah Ha!! You're one of the Neo-Conservatives.

Totally legit to be legalist about proper liturgy in the face of liberal destruction, but with regards to an act of restoration, it's a violation of valid judgement.
After 40 years of slowly being turned into the same as Episcopalians and Lutherans (no pleasant prospect for traditional Catholics!!!!_, the sight of a restoration of Catholicity regardless of what some radical Pope with his own agenda )and not the interests of the Church in mind), should be cause of applause, cheers and support....not finger pointing accusations of "disloyalty" etc.

Fr. Selvester said...

It seems to me this is another one of those situations where those on both sides of this argument will make valid points and no one will persuade the other.

One could say that these matters of clerical attire (even small elements of clerical attire like tassels and buckles) are small and insignificant and therefore, really shouldn't be argued over. Then again if they are so insignificant to the big picture then why bother with them at all?

There is something to be said for Catholicism looking like Catholicism and not some generic, watered-down version of it. On the other hand why is it simply OK to ignore the current instructions on these matters? I guess what I'm really asking is why Paul VI is the guy with the "agenda" and the "mean-ness" when other popes have reformed Church externals before? Was Pius XII mean-spirited when he shortened the length of the train of the cappa magna? Was Benedict XV mean-spirited when he eliminated certain heraldic privileges for prelates? Was John XXIII mean-spirited when he stopped wearing the falda?

Now, Paul VI's changes were far greater and eliminated all sorts of little things for seemingly no reason other than "modernization" so the comparison is a little weak. But, it seems that the question bears some examination. If people are simply going to "bring back" (in the case of things that were recently eliminated) things they think should be used then what's to stop others from inventing things of their own?

Bishops, at one time, wore green. If some bishop decided to revive that is he really wrong? It doesn't really matter in the big picture, does it? It also wouldn't really affect someone's salvation. But it might send the message that doing whatever you'd like is OK. From there some may (please note I said "MAY") extrapolate that they can begin to do whatever they'd like in all areas of Catholicism.

I don't say this absolutely will happen. I simply say that it could. This underscores my original point: there are good arguments on both sides of this issue. Who knows? Maybe this is the way it should be. For example, when I was a boy one frequently saw a priest in a cassock. Then I got a bit older and you never saw a priest in a cassock. It changed because some younger priests and seminarians decided they would wear it anyway even if it seemed to have fallen into disuse. Now, there is a real reappearance of the cassock on clergy happening. Then again, the difference is that the cassock fell into disuse. It was not eliminated by papal decree.

After more than 20 years working in the Church I have learned one thing: people are gonna do what they want in the end anyway. So, no matter what we say here these tassels (which one of my seminary profs. used to call "monkey balls") seem to be making a comeback. Would that the same attitude would be adopted regarding the triregno!

PeterHWright said...

This is a very interesting and very useful comment from Fy. Guy Selvester. It raises a good many questions which cannot all be addressed here.

However, I would make one point.

The "Cafeteria Catholics" mentioned by Anon 2 are, as I understand it, those people who pick and choose which items of Church doctrine they accept in the area of faith and morals.

This sort of dissent is very serious, and can even lead, and has led, to some people crossing the pons asinorum out of the Church and into eternal darkness.

The revival in recent years of certain externals such as items of clerical dress, suppressed (somewhat controversially) many years ago, is surely a somewhat different matter.

I honestly don't think people who indulge in the latter are of the same or similar mindset to those who indulge in the former. They are not doing it in a spirit of dissent from Catholic doctrine. Far from it !

Therefore, the one is most unlikely to lead to the other. At least, that is how it seems to me.

As to the triregno mentioned by Father, even if it is never worn again, the tiara and crossed keys remain as a symbol of the papacy, and can be seen all over Rome, literally carved in stone !

Anonymous said...

I remember a family friend (now in his 50's), telling me (28) any my family about being in the seminary in 1978, and seeing an old tape of the Tridentine Latin Mass being played in the student lounge. Far from a period of reflective appreciation for the Latin Mass, the seminarians spent the time deriding the TLM, and howling with cat-calls and laughter and boos when the old tape showed the priest at Mass genuflecting, or the acolytes lifting the ends of his chasuble during the Consecration. It was profoundly disturbing for the man who was in the seminary that night watching the tape with his classmates and seeing the majority of them boo, jeer, and howl at Catholic tradition. This was 1978, when the Vatican II storm was still roaring across the Church though not with the strength of 5 years previously.

The point is, the "old crowd" priests (those mid 50's and older...all the way into their 80's), are those who in large measure hate Catholic tradition. Those below 50 (mostly 45 and under), love the old ways, are are restoring them regardless of Paul VI and his horrendous reign and documents regarding vesture promulgated.
Knowingly or not, John Paul II allowed for the spark of Catholic tradition to be restored when he set up the "Ecclesiae Dei" commission, and Benedict XVI gave it further momentum with the famous "Summorum Pontificum" motu proprio last year.
Catholic tradition and the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) or the Tridentine Latin Mass attracts the young....We are bringing a huge movement of support for it.
Old guard men (like the retiring Cardinal Arinze, 76), are shaking in their shoes, because they hate Catholic tradition and the TLM. He was THE MOST vigorous opponent of the Motu Proprio of Benedict XVI last year, and he reportedly wore himself out mentally for weeks trying to stop it.
So, it's the old men (and women....the legions of aged habitless nuns pushing 80 all ready for collective nursing homes), that hate Catholic tradition, and the TLM.
They would be against the restoration of priestly and liturgical vesture no matter how small. That's how bitter they are, and how still motivated they are by a "Vatican II" vision of the Church as degreed by Paul VI which has proven, after 45+ years to be a total failure.
So bring back as much of the old glory as possible....including priestly dress. It will only help the Church...while the "reformers" of the Paul VI Curia and others have done their best to bring the Church down.

Tony said...

I was among the last few to be named to the rank of Protonotary Apostolic before that Papal foolishness was put into effect (frankly, I think it will be reversed once GOD has gathered someone unto Himself). Even though the use of the mantelletta and tasseled fascia has been frowned on, I still wear both. I earned it by years of being one of the investigators for past 20 years in all this child abuse - and having one of the most displeasing tasks that can be given to a priest. Before the ascension of someone who will remained unnamed, there was a gentlemen's agreement about such things. Since I was elevated by Benedict XVI, who never stated or enforced the Pauline Dress Code, I will continue to wear my prelatials, as many other appointees are doing. Sooner or later, there will be anew kid on the block and then......