Tuesday, March 18, 2008

The custom of the train...


Anonymous said...

Is this actually being used again?!
The only reason I ask, it that Pius XII did away with this basically before even the end of WW II, (it actually did fall into disuse around then). So if it's being brought back, that's fabulous news.
As for the moire faccias' etc., Paul VI, in an infamous ruling in the late 1960's right at the time the Novus Ordo came out, did away with the Papal Court, and very many elements of vesture....even ridiculously small things like the type of faccias, Roman hats, etc. that could be worn. Actually it was wholesale destruction for destruction's sake.
So it's nice if finally these rulings, defintly originally made in a spirit of malice, are being ignored by new generations who appreciate our Catholic vesture and traditions.

castor said...

you are referring to the 1969 instruction from the Secretariat of State. This was not a liturgical instruction, which is why Cardinal Siri continued to use some things axed in that instruction for pontifical services (the new ceremonioale pontificorum was issued after his death) moire fascias were never abolished. even before, only papal legates (cardinals & nuncios/ap delegates) had the right to wear moire cassocks, mantellettas & mozzettas. The sash was always moire and that remains. the cardinal used to have both wool and moire birettas but now only the latter remains.

Anonymous said...

What I meant was the choir train.
This was a very old tradition (even ordinary parish priests, especially in the "Victorian Era", had cassocks with trains which buttoned in the back and could be let down). THat's why some cassocks for priests,monsignors,Bishops etc. are called "choir", and then there is also the "house cassock" which doesn't have the train.
Pius XII did away with the "buttoned up" trains on the soutanes of all priests, bishops, and Cardinals in around 1940-41, so I'm surprised to see it back. Actually this is great if it is back.
Also in 1946, during his first (of only 2 consistories to name new Cardinals), Pius XII shortened by about 10 feet the huge trains that Cardinals and bishops were allowed to have on their Cappa Magnas.
John XXIII in 1958 promptly reversed this rule, and allowed the super long trains again. Which is why I always thought it strange that the liberal liturgical and vesture "hacks" who claimed to be such experts and cheerleaders for the liturgical reforms of Vatican II used John XXIII as their rallying point. He wasn't a liturgical innovator, nor with regards to vesture.
It is well known that when he became Pope in 1958, he put 2x as much pomp into his coronation that did Pius XII in 1939....so much so that he was accused of having poor taste. His actual quote about all the Baroque splendor he put into his coronation Mass, and subsequent pontifical ceremonies was " The more the better".
So I often wonder what the Mass would look like had John XXIII lived 6-7 more years. Considering what he died of (stomach cancer which killed him and nearly all his brothers and sisters), that of course would have been highly unlikely . But I doubt if we would have had the Novus Ordo had John XXIII lived. And I doubt we would have had the striped down, bare-bones Papal Masses of Paul VI, nor the outlandish free-for-all Masses of John Paul II.
I think Mass would probably still be the Tridentine Latin Mass with a few elements of added vernacular here and there. Gregorian CHant would still be used....and Papal Masses would have resembled the style of Benedict XVI.

old believer said...

Choir-cassock trains were abolished in the early 1950s not the 1940s. At the same time the length of cappae magnae was shortened and Cardinals lost the right to the use of violet watered silk mourning dress.